Archive

The Rolling Stones

Released ca. early 1973

About two years to 18 months after having copied pre-TMOQ’s The Stones LIVER under the title Gimme Shelter (click on the link for that post), WCF felt the need to repeat it all, this time using the original’s name and with basically an identical insert.

This new pressing came from new pressing plates – 4045-A / B

When WCF finally chose the name Berkeley Records, they reissued this album with the same matrix number as part of their b&w series ca. 1975/6 as in concert:

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History of the original TMOQ plates (if you can contribute, please leave a comment). It looks as if several safety copies were kept and used in rotation.

First matrix claims:

  • X-4172 4328 / 1X 241 X1 4237 with LURCH Records labels. Discs have no song separation and the stamp is blue.
  • The TMOQ Record Collectors wiki claimed it was X14327 / X14328 with either Lurch or Oakland Records labels.
  • There’s another claim stating: “matrix number S-2110/1 was the first pressing available to the public“.
  • 1971 – ’72: All the early reissues I reviewed – colored cardboard cover and sticker, with or without insert, large 1/2 labels (w. or w/o outer rings), often on colored wax – have the new matrix RS 510 A/B

 

  • “Made In Holland” versions: I have found one copy with a 14327/14328 matrix and another with 1X 241 14327 / X-4172 14328

 

  • 1972 – ’73: Farm pig labels and silver/gold stickers have either the RS 510 matrix or:  1X 241 14327 / X-4172 14328

Rolling Stones LiveR ora bl lbl

  • The generic cartoon cover reissue has the RS 510 matrix as well

Rolling Stones LiveR cartoon lbl

  • Smoking pig versions have Ken’s trademark 1811 A/B matrix or is detail: ‘1X241’ scratched off followed by 1811A / ‘4172’ scratched off followed by 1811B A14328

 

Online, the following statement can be found: “”LIVEr Than You’ll Ever Be” was originally remastered by David Axelrod, according to William Stout. ” If he really meant ‘remastered’, which stamper has this new version/are there audible differences between them?

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Two & half sets of RS 510 stampers sold in April of 2009:

a. All three auctions ended 04/17. This pair sold for $298. Envelopes are stamped “Aug -9 1972”

Rolling Stones RS 510 stampers II

b. Sold for $325:

Rolling Stones RS 510 stampers

c. Stamper for RS-510 B only: $169

Rolling Stones RS 510 B

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Background info about how Dub Taylor recorded the Stones on tour in ’69 can be found in this previous post.

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Released ca. 1972/3 (if one believes that 4011, 4022, 4033 & 4044 were released without large time gaps between them as 4033/44 was only recorded in November of ’72)

Matrix: 4011 I / II x

 

And WCF’s 1973/4 folder style cover reissue.

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The original:

The second Rolling Stones by Ken & Dub (that was not a copy), released around June of 1971 with the ‘no border’ 1/2 labels, matrix: RS 507 A / B

Different labels and stickers came later. This is probably the first time the term “out take” was used on a record cover to refer to unused takes during a studio recording:

 

01. Memphis, Tennessee [02:13] 1963-09-23: Saturday Club, London, UK (tracks 01. – 02.)
02. Roll Over Beethoven [02:17]
03. Down in the Bottom [02:47] 1964-05-25: Saturday Club, London, UK (tracks 03. – 07.)
04. You Can Make It if You Try [02:13]
05. Route 66 [02:30]
06. Confessin’ The Blues [03:03]
07. Down The Road A Piece [01:43]
08. High-Heel Sneakers [02:38] 1964-04-13: Saturday Club, London, UK (tracks 08.-09., 10.-11. + 16.)
09. Beautiful Delilah [02:12]
10. Carol [02:25]
11. I Just Want to Make Love to You [02:12]
12. (I Can’t Get No) Satisfaction [04:00] 1965-08-20: ‘Saturday Club’ BBC, London (tracks 12. – 15.)
13. The Spider And The Fly [03:28]
14. Cry To Me [03:20]
15. Fanny Mae [02:18]
16. Walking The Dog [03:16]
17. Jumping Jack Flash [03:31] 1968-04-20: Olympic Sound Studios, London, UK, Studio Session

TMOQ re-pressings:

 

Reissues under a different label name:

  • with Dragonfly or Ruthless Rhymes labels and a different insert in the mid 70’s made by Vicki Vinyl using the 1835 TMOQ plates (a mcv version with grey labels and using the standard insert also exists)
  • Repressed as part of the The Black Box 3 LP set
  • A rather ugly picture disc made in the 90’s adds “Come On” (from SC 1963-09-23) and “I Wanna be Your Man” (from SC 1964-02-03) as the closing tracks on sides 1 & 2 (not shown).

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All of these tracks were finally officially released in December of 2017 as THE ROLLING STONES ON AIR

 

 

 

Rolling Stones Stoned Again GT lbl 2

Usually found with a b&w or purple&w insert and with “Good Time”, orange title or blank white labels.

Rolling Stones Stoned Again 3

 

Update: I have since received a comment that calls into question that the orange label version is a real WCF release.

 

USA: 1971

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Around April of 1970, someone created this pirate compilation, as dbboots reports with unusual accuracy, and we have two contenders for the original version:

  1. Stoned Again (by the Rockers)

Not to be mistaken by a Swedish 1970 RS bootleg named Stoned Again as well.

Single album in a white gatefold sleeve, also found with orange labels. Matrix: RS 121-A-1 / RS 122

Rolling Stones Stoned Again gf

Another reported matrix has RS-727 A-7 and RS-722

 

2. “STONED” with the matrix HL-A/B, produced in the Chicago area.

Rolling Stones STONED HL-A 2

 

 

 

Label design copied by WCF, as seen in the second image. The differences in pressing are also clearly visible in this side by side presentation.

The label designer was trying hard to fool those not hip to the Stones while still very much recognizable by their fans and bootleg buyers.

Someone compiled this album using: Their first 45 DECCA F 11675 “Come On / I Want To be Loved” (“Come On” was not listed on WCF’s insert); the B-side of “Paint It Black”, “Long Long While” from 1966; took the version of “Poison Ivy” that was unique to a Saturday Club V.A. UK release (LK 4583); copied another 45: Decca F 11764 / London 45-9641 “I Wanna Be Your Man / Stoned”; grabbed two tracks off of the British EP Decca DFE 8560, “Bye Bye Johnny” & “You Better Move On”. 

Side 2 starts off with their raw take of Barett Strong’s “Money” as recorded on 14 November 1963 at De Lane Lea studios in London from their The Rolling Stones EP (DFE 8560); “I Can’t Be Satisfied” (I could not confirm if this is the same take/from the same recording session as the Rolling Stones No. 2 album) and finally what appears to be four Got Live If You Want It EP tracks: “Everybody Needs Somebody To Love”, “Pain In My Heart”, “I’m Moving On” and “I’m Alright”.  Unlike claimed by HOTWACKS, there were no outtakes on this release.

Rolling Stones gLiywi EP

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While researching the origins of this pirate release I came across this version and thought it might be a ‘lost’ pre-TMOQ release due to a. the sticker similarity with their February 1970 release Donovan – A Gift From the Underground To a Flower – Moonshine Superman sticker version and b. the very TMOQ-like matrix of RS 121/122.

Riolling Stones Stoned Again RS 121

I’ve since been informed that this version likely from the UK as the same type of sticker can be found on UK versions of LiveR Than You’LL Ever Be , Dylan’s Great White Wonder & Isle Of Wight

Dylan GWW UK sticker

Dylan IoW UK sticker

and The Beatles – Kum Back (better quality images needed, please leave a comment if you can provide them):

Beatles Kum Back UK sti

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Later versions of STONED AGAIN include:

STONED AGIN! BY THE ROCKERS  – with a Robert Crumb cartoon cover and two different matrix markings: VAT-1110-A/B (blue insert- white labels) or RS-121/2 (green color insert):

Rolling Stones Stoned Agin!

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and a version released in Japan that copied the WCF insert:

Rolling Stones Stoned Again Japan RV 5004

Rolling Stones Stoned Again Japan RV 5004 lbl

“Blimp Records”and “EV 5004” being nods towards TMOQ’s Led Zeppelin – Live On Blueberry Hill release.

Led Zep BH lbl detail

Also available with what looks like a deluxe cover copied from THE ROLLING STONES UK EP, DFE 8560 or may just be a home made owner job:

Rolling Stones SA Japan del cvr

 

 

Rolling Stones Gimme Shelter 2

Here’s the surprise, a rather non-WCF looking label without a number:

Rolling Stones Gimme Shelter LP.jpg

Rolling Stones Gimme Shelter Lurch

Copies with white labels also exist.

Matrix: X14327/X-14328

Matrix of the original pre-TMOQ release: X 4172 4328 / IX 241 X 14237 

Label of the original release:

Rolling Stones LiveR Lurch lbl 1

Someone was clearly trying to get as close to the original as far as the disc and label was concerned.

The surprises do not end here:

Rolling Stones Gimme Shelter st

The cover is also stamped underneath the insert, only the third case found with WCF releases so far after The Band – Live Band # One (stamped “LIVE Band”) and The Beatles – Let It Be Live (stamped “SILVER”).

Rolling Stones Gimme Shelter

 

One of only a couple of WCF titles found with a slightly smaller ‘negative image’ insert.

Rolling Stones Gimme Shelter wh lbl

USA: 1971 Although rollingstonesnet.com places the WCF version right on top with the earliest releases of LiveR on their page analyzing the famous Oakland ’69 bootleg, I would place it significantly later.

Source: One of the many copies of LiveR Than You’ll Ever Be, only the fourth release by what would become the TMOQ label and the first ever bootleg containing a contemporary live recording. 1969-11-09, second show that night at the Oakland Coliseum.

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WCF also reissued this in one of their folder style covers ca. 1974, showing a large image of the artist(s) on the back panel. I only found the back so far:

Rolling Stones LiveR RE

According to an eBay seller the matrix for this version is:

X-4172 X 14328 III I // IX 241 X 14327 I

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Needless to say, Contraband again copied WCF’s cover design 1:1 and it’s this version that’s featured in HOTWACKS and on dbboots.com under the Gimme Shelter entry.

Rolling Stones Gimme Shelter CBM

 

Matrix: X-241-1 // X-241-2 

Rolling Stones Gimme Shelter CBM 2

 

Also issued with this distinct tan CBM label:

 

Looking through my image collection, both label times can be found with these CBM releases:

The Band – What’cha Want Mama; The Beatles – Live Concert Atlanta (# 3552) (both WCF copies), Beatles – the never released MARY JANE (# 3585, shown here);

Beatles TNR MJane lbl 2

Bob Dylan – GWW II (single disc version, # 616/7) & Help (# 3587, bobsboots lists this as a 1975 release but these are clearly much earlier labels), the CBM copy of Jethro Tull’s My God, the Moody Blues – October and Santana – Collectors Item (I’m sure there are likely more examples). All of these releases date from 1971 to 1972. This means that the WCF version of Gimme Shelter likely dates from 1971, in line with the year they produced the “Compatable For Stereo” insert designs) and the CBM copy from 1971/2.

 

 

Rolling Stones Stoned MSG corr.jpg

Insert with corrected track list. Whoever was behind the WCF releases, they certainly weren’t  informed Rolling Stones fans.

The correct track list for the A side is: Jumpin’ Jack Flash / Carol / Sympathy for the Devil / Under My Thumb – I’mFree (medley)

Rolling Stones Stoned MSG lbl A

and for the B-side: Midnight Rambler / Love In Vain / Satisfaction / Honky Tonk Women

Rolling Stones Stoned MSG lbl B

Also found with blank white labels:

Rolling Stones Stoned MSG bl lbl

Matrix: 102 A / B

USA: 1971

Source: Audience recording from Madison Square Garden, NYC on 27 November 1969. Two songs from this evening’s performance, the first and the last song on the bootleg, made it onto the official Get Yer-Ya Ya’s Out! live album (several more are on the 40th anniversary deluxe box set) and so “Stoned-M.S.G. provided the earliest look at the level of overdubbing that took place on Ya-Ya’s.

Rolling Stones 1969-11-27

Stoned-M.S.G. is a very good recording for the time, and I would go as far as to say that it is the work of the infamous Trade Mark of Quality (TMoQ), under one their many aliases [ my comment: This is not correct based what we know today: TMOQ and WCF were run by different people]. There is virtually no audience noise which leads me to believe that it was recorded with the same “shotgun” microphone that was used by TMoQ for the West Coast shows [ “They recorded the Los Angeles, San Diego, Oakland and Phoenix shows.” Source: Ken’s blog, episode: “It Coulda Happened this Way — LiveR Than You’ll Ever Be” It has never been reported that Dub traveled to the East Coast to record further shows.]. ” (rollingstonesnet.info)  The fact that some of these tracks appeared years later on a couple of  Ken’s ‘smoking pig’ Stones releases as filler – Mick’s Birthday Party 2LP (72017), Gimme Shelter 2LP (73009) and Play With Fire (HHCER 108) does not provide further proof (to complete this list, four tracks can also be found on the LP THE BEST OF THE ROLLING STONES LIVE IN CONCERT (BRS 775)).

Regarding the sound quality, while HOTWACKS grades the album only as “Gm”, it does appear to sound significantly better than this. Stones bootleg specialist site dbboots even assigned an excellent stereo rating.

Further cover and insert variations:

Rolling Stones Stoned MSG gree

Rolling Stones Stoned MSG

Rolling Stones Stoned MSG red

I was not able to find a reissued ‘folder-cover’ version for this title.

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Rolling Stones NYC MSG '69

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Beatles YMC wcf 2

A 1967 photo to go with tracks that almost everyone would have guessed were recorded years earlier? Perhaps the folks at WCF weren’t Beatles fans either.

Beatles YMC wcf lbl 1

Beatles YMC wcf lbl 2

Matrix: YML – 102 – A / – B

Why it says “YML” is probably anyone’s guess. This was changed for the reissue (see last entry in this post).

USA: 1971

Was it copied from TMOQ’s original by the same name (matrix BBL – 513)? I am pretty confident that WCF’s version along with the other records in their 100 series was produced in 1971 but the TMOQ record wiki originally stated that TMOQ did not release it until January of 1972.

We know that John Lennon himself was presented with a copy of Yellow Matter Custard and in exchange gave a signed album cover with the date “Dec. 7th 71.”. I had always assumed that this had been a copy of the TMOQ version but maybe that is not correct anymore?

On the other hand, the fact that WCF got all the song titles correct (misspellings on the insert aside: “I Got A Women“, “Trying, Waiting, Hoping“, see below ) tells me that they copied all of this from someone else, that this ‘someone’ could only have been TMOQ and the original version must have been released at least a couple of months earlier than January 1972, likely in September of 1971.

 

In anyway, WCF (and TMOQ) churned this album out by the hundreds, if not thousands – a lot more copies than the Stoned – M.S.G. album – as the Beatles title turned out to be a good seller and they were joined in this by another label, which (again) ripped off WCF’s insert design:

CBM/Shalom/King Kong # 3316, adding the subtitle “AS SWEET AS YOU ARE”, the CBM logo and the statement “with two bonus tracks”, which, if they meant as opposed to the versions by WCF and TMOQ, are nowhere to be found:

Beatles YMC CBM

Matrix: CBM2 C1 RI 3316 C  /  CBM2 D1 RI 3316 D

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Yellow Matter Custard was reissued in WCF’s folder-cover series ca. ’73/’74 and the matrix had now changed to YMC – 102 A/B

Beatles YMC folder

 

Beatles YMC folder 2 det

The job of putting Beatles names after each track was supposed to indicate who sang on it, plus in some cases who sang lead; it looks like John singing lead on Ray Charles’ “I Got A Woman” stymied them. At least someone at WCF listened to the songs – A for effort.

The folder version’s back cover design, they were going to stick with 1967 photos and nothing could persuade them otherwise, it seems:

Beatles YMC folder b.jpg

 

 

 

Rolling Stones Euro Tour 1970 Rope

The first appearance of the word “STEREO” on a WCF self-designed slip sheet (regardless of the fact that the recording you bought may actually have been in mono), which would later evolve into their trade mark phrase “Compatable for STEREO”.

Rolling Stones Euro Tour 1970 Rope lbl

Rolling Stones Euro Tour 1970 Live 32B

USA: 1971/2

While TMOQ decided to tweak Rubber Dubber’s original of the Stones recorded at Essen, Germany’s Gruga Halle on 7th October 1970 (47 years ago to the day, I just realized!) and release it as a single album,

Rolling Stones Euro Tour Live 1970 red lbl

 

Rolling Stones Europ Tour 1970 red c

(Ken’s story how Scott Johnson, the man behind Rubber Dubber reacted to this can be found here.)

the folks at WCF decided to keep it as a double album despite the rather short running times (side two not even reaching 10 minutes as shown above).

Dittolino’s copy the rolling stones in concert had previously been shown in this post.

HOTWACKS listed the ROLL & ROPE Records version as its master entry with Rubber Dubber having to make do with running under “Also available on…”. Their quality rating was only “Gm” but Rubber Dubber’s original release is better than that.

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Essen 1970.jpg

Essen 1970 – where a female audience member would steal Mick’s famous belt (seen here in this Essen photo) right of the stage floor (which he had taken out of its loops for the whipping act he performed during “Midnight Rambler”).

USA: 1971

Side 1 matrix:  ← RP 24-A →

It appears that for the Beatles side two different versions may exist: Copies with a “24 X X” matrix seem play the 1965 Ed Sullivan show as listed on the label while “RP-24-B” copies play songs from their 1965 Shea Stadium soundtrack instead: Twist And Shout / I Feel Fine / Dizzy Miss Lizzy / Ticket To Ride

It appears that a mistake was made and the RP-24-B version came first after the art work and label for the six Ed Sullivan tracks had already been printed, causing a discrepancy.

On the Rolling Stones side one, the track list contains many mistakes. Track 1 is “Looking Tired” from the 6 September 1965 RCA Studio Hollywood sessions an four tracks from their Chess Studio Chicago session, 11 June 1964: Tell Me Baby / Down In The Bottom / Stewed And Keefed / Hi-Heel Sneakers

The quality is excellent. Most collectors know this material from TMOQ’s Bright Lights Big City album, which was still years away at this time (released: July 1973).

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discogs shows this alternate, though rather untypical for a WCF release, cover, which does not look home-made to me. The matrices are ← RP 24-A → and RP 24 B for side 2.

B RS Battle alt

 

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This title was copied as part of Japan’s ‘JL’ series around 1976-7 as JL 512: