Found this in my image collection. Either it’s a case of record in wrong sleeve or Zerocks had access to Dittolino labels or this was a joint venture.
This title had previously been discussed in depth here.
Found this in my image collection. Either it’s a case of record in wrong sleeve or Zerocks had access to Dittolino labels or this was a joint venture.
This title had previously been discussed in depth here.
ROD STEWART WITH SMALL FACES – ‘NET WT. VERY HEAVY’ previously included in this post
JAMES TAYLOR – ‘FIRE + RAIN’ (TAILOR MADE) now updated & included in this post
NEIL YOUNG – ‘NIEL’ LIVE included in this post with a better image
And there you have all Dittolino Disc releases. We still don’t know who was behind this label but this series of posts were a lot more interesting than I had first expected.
Image of the label found with the cover shown above.
Matrix: 111A / B
This show – Homewood Session, Vine Street Theatre, Hollywood, CA – was originally broadcast on December 5, 1970 (US TV, KCET Los Angeles). A note adds:
The Vine Street Theatre had a little studio in the back part of the building. The show is billed on the theatre marquee at the beginning as “The Vine Street Theatre presents Homewood”, but the on air host calls it “Session”. They actually shot six hours but only broadcast one hour. As Leon says in the opening intro from when it was rebroadcast, it was unscripted and unrehearsed. Leon also says that it was the first national broadcast of a “stereo” rock and roll performance but that would have required an FM simulcast, since American television was not stereo in 1970 or even in the 1980s when this was probably rebroadcast.
From the video:
00:00:00:00 chapter 1 Leon’s intro to KCET rebroadcast
00:00:26:17 chapter 2 original show intro
00:03:15:04 chapter 3 Will The Circle Be Unbroken?
00:06:36:00 chapter 4 Jim’s Thing
00:09:30:14 chapter 5 It Takes A Lot To Laugh It Takes A Train To Cry
00:14:50:17 chapter 6 Delta Lady [with false starts]
00:19:52:22 chapter 7 Song For You
00:25:12:08 chapter 8 Good Morning Jury [Furry Lewis solo]
00:27:56:15 chapter 9 John Henry [Furry Lewis solo]
00:30:38:21 chapter 10 Furry’s Blues [Furry Lewis with Leon and band]
00:33:12:25 chapter 11 Amos Burke
00:36:03:12 chapter 12 Honky Tonk Woman
00:39:29:04 chapter 13 Sweet Emily
00:42:54:26 chapter 14 Prince Of Peace
00:46:24:05 chapter 15 Girl From The North Country
00:49:14:07 chapter 16 Big Boss Man
00:52:15:03 chapter 17 Crystal Closet Queen
00:57:30:05 chapter 18 credits
From the closing credits: “Session – Leon Russell and Friends”:
One of the most copied bootlegs of 1971. It is not clear which bootleg label came out first with this (I doubt it was Dittolino). The main contenders are:
THE MASTER OF SPACE AND TIME on ZEROCKS:
SESSION on Bush Records:
Also available on Mother Records [JX-101 - is that the matrix?] with a slightly different cover:
Dub & Ken’s first version on their short lived 1971 Keylo sub label:
Their second pressing, ca July 1972:
And their third version:
HOTWACKS quote: “The best (sounding version) is on an unnamed label. This copy can be identified by the DBW (cover) which lists the playing time as 46 minutes.”
A different opinion found on the net: “There was another release of the show: Recorded Live from an Earlier Broadcast. I found the Master of Space and Time release the most equilibrated [sic]. “
A Contraband version is supposed to exist, according to HOTWACKS but i could not find a trace of it.
Comments from a needledrop done by – who else – Doinker:
“This superb show has unfortunately never been released. The source is supposedly an FM simulcast, but I don’t believe it as the sound quality is a bit better than FM. This is from one of the many early bootleg vinyl pressings that were put out at the time, but is not from the Zerocks Records release that is the most common. The sound quality on that release was not as good as the Bush Records vinyl, so the Bush Records vinyl was used instead.
The outro at the end of So Strange was taken from the Zerocks Records release, it doesn’t appear on the Bush version.
The Furry who sings Furry’s Blues is the same Furry who Joni Mitchell wrote a song about (Furry Sings The Blues). As the story goes, the old man gave his permission at first, then sued her when the song became more popular.”
“I still have the little frog flyer that I clipped out of the LA Times. The show was simulcast with KPPC FM from Pasadena.”
This really is from a different time and place. There is an innocence and unscripted experimental willingness (here’s some air time, see what you can come up with) just in that image alone that is refreshing and which we have certainly lost.
Finally, a copy found with the rarely seen ‘A’ label, first found on floydboots.com for the Pink Floyd title. Does this mean these two releases might have been among the first Dittolino releases? Another opinion just came in, placing this label significantly later: ca. 1975.
MATRIX: S-2110 // S-2111
Released in late 1970 or 1971 (see comment below last image in this post).
Source: Oakland Coliseum, 9 November 1969 – 2nd show
02. Jumping Jack Flash
03. Carol 3:47 [3:30]
04. Sympathy for the Devil 6:20 [6:02]
05. Stray Cat Blues
06. Prodigal Son
07. You Gotta Move
08. Love in Vain 5:35 [4:47]
09. I’m Free 5:45 [5:07]
10. Under My Thumb
11. Midnight Rambler 7:52 [7:20]
12. Live with Me 3:11 [2:58]
13. Gimme Shelter 4:02 [3:43]
14. Little Queenie 5:03 [3:52]
16. Honky Tonk Women 4:23 [3:50]
17. Street Fighting Man 4:19 [3:48]
Song order was changed on the bootleg. Times in brackets given for the Dittolino release. It could mean that it runs faster or just that the Lurch Records track lengths include part of the in-between song ambiance.
Likely a copy of Dub & Ken’s second ever release or another of the many early “LiveR” clones.
It seems when it came to their two Rolling Stones titles the “Art Department” at Dittolino Discs didn’t exactly break out into a sweat.
Matrix: 6970-A s2370 / 6971-A s2372 / 6971 -B s-2371 3 / 6970-B S-2371
Released in 1971
Source: Essen, Grugahalle – 7 October 1970
Side 1: Jumping Jack Flash [03:55] / Roll Over Beethoven [02:25] / Sympathy For The Devil [07:34] Side 2: Stray Cat Blues [04:14] / Love In Vain [05:23] / Dead Flowers [04:03] Side 3: Midnight Rambler [10:22] / Live With Me [04:36] Side 4: Let It Rock [03:19] / Little Queenie [04:19] / Brown Sugar [03:22]
An original DD insert and not homemade using “just Mick” from the commonly found group composition art work. I wish a better image was available to read all the writing.
Likely a straight copy of this Rubber Dubber 2 LP release:
Other cover variations – I am not saying that all of these were used by Dittolino:
The last one shown comes with silver labels:
Promo poster for Get Yer Ya-Ya’s Out! The Rolling Stones in Concert
Since that album was only released in early September of 1970, this would help us date the bootlegs.
Three different cover types exist: The one shown above, the Escher type insert (in blue or pink) or just stamped. The main label variations are: Dittolino logo, 1/2, blank, and later smoking pig and ‘large A’ labels (I have never seen the last two variations but flodboots lists them).
In addition, the records were pressed on clear and white PVC. I believe that these copies, including the smoking pig and ‘large A’ labels were produced significantly later by some other enterprising outfit than the original Dittolino guys but would be happy to be proven wrong in this.
Above: Matrix markings for sides 1 and 4.
The stamped copies may in fact have been the first pressing:
PINK FLOYD Live at the Santa Monica Civic Auditorium Santa Monica, California Friday October 23, 1970 1st set (bold songs selected for the vinyl bootleg master) 01. Astronomy Domine 02. Green Is The Colour -> Careful With That Axe, Eugene 03. Fat Old Sun 04. Set The Controls for the Heart of the Sun 05. Cymbaline 06. A Saucerful of Secrets 2nd set 07. Atom Heart Mother (with orchestra and choir) Encore 08. Interstellar Overdrive (not recorded by Dub)
01. Atom Heart Mother [25:04] 02. Fat Old Sun [11:23] 03. Cymbaline [9:20] 04. A Saucerful Of Secrets [20:26]
“The 1st Pink Floyd bootleg, according to a 1971 article in Circus magazine, was simply called “LIVE” which was recorded in Santa Monica on 10/23/70. The record was in a plain white cover and stamped. I believe this may have been a Dittolino release.”
I wonder if this was the edition that mentioned it – October 1971:
These are the first two pages of the article written by Richard Meltzer. I enlarged it to 150% and you can read every word but there is no mention of an underground Pink Floyd record, However, this is not the complete article, so perhaps it’s mentioned on the next page. Does anyone have the complete article?
After a lengthy investigation, I have to concede that Dittolino Discs may have been the first bootlegger to release the first ever Pink Floyd vinyl bootleg as the TMOQ version seems to have been pressed significantly later, perhaps in 1973. A couple of experts have even given the Dittolino version the audio quality edge over the TMOQ version:
“My instinct listening to it is that Cymbaline is a better transfer to vinyl possibly because a higher quality unit was used but they are a close enough match to conclude that the source tape / reel is very likely to be the same or no more than a generation apart. If they are a different generation my vote would go to Cymbaline being lower.”
Doinker: “Now that’s very funny you say that. To my ears, [the Dittolino Disc version, here called "LDD"] has better frequency response. But, that’s me.”
Here are the facts:
- If the Circus article from the October 1971 Circus issue is indeed the one, and they were referring to the Dittolino Discs version, that bootleg must have come out by August 1971 at the latest.
- Both the Dittolino Discs and the TMOQ release contain the same recording from the same source tape, as does the 1980’s version titled Cymbaline
The copy shown above, on black PVC, sold for 126 GBP in late 2010.
An in depth discussion regarding the sources for this concert can be found on the Yeeshkul! Pink Floyd forum (registration required).
“According to recent threads on this website, the vinyl source (now sources) for this date are a different recorder than the Dub Taylor recording. I was asked to transfer the 2 LP TMOQ set “Cymbaline” at 24/96 as it’s understood to be different. Upon research, I found this to be the same recorder as an earlier TMOQ release “Pink Floyd Live Dittolino Discs”. I expected the two pressings to be identical, even though they are from different plates. They aren’t. There are different start points in the source tape used for each pressing, necessitating syncing and combining the two sets for maximum listening time.
“Cymbaline” should be considered complete enough to warrant torrenting on its own, but “LDD” is most certainly not. I cannot guarantee the speed runs totally correct through all four sides. “LDD” also still has some technical flaws which need polishing. The two sources need synching anyway to make them run at the same speed.
What I hope for is this: I would like someone else to combine these two albums and to make any further corrections as necessary. It’s possible known gaps within the existing vinyl transfer will now be solved.
Setlist (run times approximate)
“Cymbaline” TMOQ 2804
Atom Heart Mother S1 13:31
Atom Heart Mother S2 13:27
Fat Old Sun 12:19
A Saucerful Of Secrets 21:17
“Pink Floyd Live Dittolino Discs” D2
Atom Heart Mother S1 13:27
Atom Heart Mother S2 13:33
Fat Old Sun 12:15
A Saucerful Of Secrets 21:36
Technical notes: “Cymbaline” ran different speeds at every cut. This means AHM1 and AHM2 were different from each other, and that FOS and Cymbaline were different even though coming from the same record side. This was a very difficult record to pitch correctly, and I’m not confident it’s at 100%, you’ll have to tell me. It was pitched both on the turntable, then digitally by very small increments. “LDD” ran constantly at the wrong speed and is probably also correct, but I believe there’s a change in pitch somewhere within ASOS. “LDD” unfortunately was purchased well-used, and the outer edges of all four sides are feathered. Most of that has been corrected. To me, “LDD” may have a better sound quality. There’s some static on both sources when the volume is increased at the beginning of each side. Since it is on both sources, I would have to say it’s in the unit used for transferring the tape to vinyl, and that the same unit was used on both occasions.”
From one of the threads that started the discussion:
“Recently I discovered a CDR I made from a LP I acquired behind the ‘University Center’ of USF during late 1983. I no longer have the LP which is too bad since it sounds like it would have been worth a high quality transfer. This LP is the alternate recorder for this date and after a quick comparison to the ‘Creatures Of The Deep’ alternate recorder [Dub's master tape], I decided that some people may prefer this version. [...] The LP was one of the two versions identified in the links below. I recall the ‘Full Tilt’ Label but also the ‘GLC’ label. Mine had a beige colored insert, but no colored vinyl.
01. [12:14] Fat Old Sun
02. [10:09] Cymbaline
03. [21:34] A Saucerful Of Secrets
04. [26:49] Atom Heart Mother
|| [70:48] Total”
“Well, that recording is by Dub Taylor, one of the partners who ran the TMOQ boot label, and this “Cymbaline” boot is from TMOQ, so I assumed they were the same. I’ll have to give it a closer listen now. Even if the same, a clean LP transferred from a young master tape may very well be sonically superior!
edit 2010-04-26: It’s the same recorder. Same cut due to tape flip at about 22:20 into AHM. The Dub Taylor tape sounds waaaayyy better to me.
edit 2010-05-08: Carefully listened to “Fat Old Sun” and “Cymbaline” from both; I agree they are indeed two different recorders. ” [http://www.yeeshkul.com/forum/showthread.php?19740-Pink-Floyd-1970-10-23-Santa-Monica-Cymbaline-LP-**Alternate_Recorder-2**/page4]
- While Dub recorded this concert as well and it remained in his collection until he sold it in the late 1980’s, it seems he never used it to manufacture a bootleg as all vinyl releases contain a different source tape. floydboots.com is therefore correct that only Ken (and Dittolino) released this concert and this explains why it is absent from Dub’s catalog.
- floydboots.com states: “FIRST RELEASED ON ‘FARM PIG’ TRADE MARK OF QUALITY LABEL ON VARIOUS COLOURED VINYL INITIALLY WITH LARGE 1,2,3,4 ON LABELS AND SUBSEQUENTLY WITH FARM PIG LOGO ON LABEL (VERY FEW PRESSINGS EXIST WITH THE REGULAR STAMPED (PINK FLOYD “LIVE”) AND STICKERED TMOQ FARM PIG COVER).”
I am not convinced if the issues with the large 1/2/3/4 labels were not in fact a copy done significantly later (‘cloudy/milky’ colored vinyl found in conjunction with such labels seems to point to a later release date). The only image of such a release I found was clearly described as a newer copy/”fake” bootleg (of Italian origin, limited to 100):
In fact, if you look here: http://www.popsike.com/php/quicksearch.php?searchtext=pink+floyd+live+tmoq&x=0&y=0 most of these are fakes sometimes even correctly called as such: “Reissue” and “test pressings” – bootleggers rarely did test pressings, advance stamped covers perhaps on occasion – produced apparently in 2012 judging by the auction dates and influx of fakes. It looks as if the same seller had started out not disclosing the fact that these were fakes and made some good money that way (see the telltale terracotta floor tiles in the background of each auction image).
TMOQ originals (sold before 2012) seem to have been pressed on red and black PVC:
2 x red PVC, sold for $560 in 2003. Seller stated he’s had it for 20+ years, it’s probably been 25 – 30 at that time, already.
Black PVC, apparently originally sold for less than $7 if I read that sticker correctly. Sold for $126 in 2009.
Only one of the discs – on red PVC – remained, when this original was sold on eBay in 2010 together with Omayad
[If anyone has any other better quality images for the one of the TMOQ 2840 versions (even if fake), please leave a comment.]
Unfortunately, http://recordcollectorsguild.org/wiki2/index.php/Trademark_Of_Quality does not list this release on either their TMOQ (Dub) or TMOQ2 (Ken) page and this makes it hard to pinpoint the exact release date
The TMOQ original will be looked at in more detail when I present the TMOQ releases.
Any contributions highly welcome.
Look closely, we will meet these labels again (purple cover with gold sticker version further down).
I do like HOTWACKS very much as a resource – I sometimes leaf through it just for fun – but it is not without its errors. This entry is a good example for that, as the master release they list by JANIS REC. is not the original and the quality rating of “Gm” is not deserved. The statement “Also available on Dittoline [sic’Records JJ4 (Vgs) already hints at that.”
The original, on yellow vinyl and much better in quality than “Gm”, pressed in a significant number of copies following her death in October of 1970, as it can still be found today without much effort:
Wayne Harada of Billboard magazine (July 25, 1970):
H.I.C. Arena, Honolulu Hawaii: Janis Joplin wailed her way to two standing ovations in her Hawaii debut July 8th before a crowd of 7,000 at the Honolulu International Center Arena. The Columbia Records artist dazzled the audience with her eclectic song-bag and her style of dress. Besides her riveting hits (“Piece of My Heart” “Try (Just A Little Bit Harder)” “Kozmic Blues” and “Maybe”) she brought along a wild stage costume consisting of sequined pants outfit, a dozen bracelets, a number of necklaces, and orange feathers or her stringy hair.
“Summertime” was an unusual inclusion in her sock-rock repertoire. It had a baroque feel, and Miss Joplin often resembled Bessie Smith – haunting, creative and expertly polished. Day Blindness, a group from San Francisco, were her supporting act. While they must’ve had something to say lyrically, their sound system was up too high.
What you have in your hot little hands is the original edition of “Get It While You Can”, which was pressed on yellow vinyl a very long time ago. I have the more recent reissue which runs a poor second on quality, and does nothing for listener. You have a great sounding Janis at top form to listen to, a rowdy audience, PLUS Mr. Asshole Announcer (who hasn’t a clue of how to deal with them). It’s simply great. This is a raw soundboard, you can feel the room shake if you turn it up loud enough.
One of the lesser sounding copies:
Here are those labels again.
I suspect that the Carole King release Fit For A King, done in a similar cover art style and also with a sticker, may have been produced by the same outfit.
Also this James Taylor release. Of course, the gold sticker was in general popular with bootleggers – for example the second generation of pig stickers used on TMOQ product:
And on other titles:
And another version, with labels saying “Linda/Rich”, making it the 4th for the unedited show spread over 2 LPs. One eBay seller claimed this was in fact the original release and the one on yellow PVC came out as many as 10 years later. That is incorrect, the yellow vinyl version was the original one. This version here is credited to WCF.
Matrix: 740 A / B + 741 A / B
Various releases exist:
Memory JJ1234 2LP
Dittolono Discs JJ4 2LP
TMOQ 71023 as ‘Infinity Blues’ 2LP [I am pretty certain that this is a mistake and was never produced]
TMOQ T1023 JJ – 110 as ‘Infinity Blues’ Single LP
In late spring 1971, Dub & Ken picked up a copy and while listening to it realized that there was quite a bit of dead air present on the unedited recording: Stage banter, pauses, tuning, crowd issues, etc. They decided to edit all of these out in order to issue this as a single LP, which they did in June of 1971 and under a different title.
“The 2-record set has the same 8 tunes as “Infinity Blues” but a whole lot more stage chatter, including some confused talk and noodling around while the sound system is being adjusted.
The TMQ bootleggers took the 2-Lp set and edited it down to the one-disc “Infinity Blues,” which is a more common boot. For years it was listed as a May 1970 concert in San Rafael (which would seem to be the infamous Hells Angels gig), but sometime in the 80s, when it was a commonly traded collectors tape, it had been attributed to Hawaii. I’ve never seen the proof either way, although from the audience sounds and the very straight, uptight emcee who introduces Janis, it can’t be a Hells Angels event. The performances sound a lot like Festival Express, so it’s early in the Full Tilt summer. I treasured this boot when I first had it, because until ’82 and “Farewell Song” it was the only audio source for “Tell Mama” (which, unfortunately, is also the only track that has a sound glitch — whoever taped it lost a second or two of volume as Janis got into the song.) I’ve always wondered if there wasn’t more to the show — even the 2-record set isn’t much longer than an hour and they were playing “Cry Baby” by the time this was recorded.”
A first/early edition, based on sticker color and label design.
A copy of TMOQ’s MY GOD! – first released in May of 1970 with square Athapascan labels and 20 1/2 matrix markings. Later known as 71005.
The seller wrote about the album shown below: “Writing on the back cover leads me to believe this lp was purchased on 9/25/1970″. So this one came from one of the first pressing runs. Vinyl looks black but was described as purple. This was only the second ever Dub Taylor/TMOQ release to be issued on colored vinyl (after Donovan’s Reedy River).
Ken: “While I was away Dub had mastered My God, by Jethro Tull which was mostly B sides added to a couple live songs he record in Long Beach with his shotgun mic. “
April 19, 1970
Long Beach, CA. Long Beach Arena
2 NOTHING IS EASY
3 MY GOD
4 TO CRY YOU A SONG
5 WITH YOU THERE TO HELP ME
6 SOSSITY YOU’RE A WOMAN > REASONS FOR WAITING > SOSSITY YOU’RE A WOMAN
7 DHARMA FOR ONE
8 WE USED TO KNOW > GUITAR SOLO > FOR A THOUSAND MOTHERS
A half-pirate release. Dub selected only two segments from his audience recording and filled side two with UK singles and B-sides that had not been released in the U.S.:
Love Story / A Christmas Song November 1968 WIP 6048 (reached # 29 in UK) – 2nd ever Jethro Tull 45
Sweet Dream / 17 October 1969 WIP 6070 (# 9 in UK) – 4th JT 45
The Witch’s Promise / The Teacher January 1970 WIP 6077 (# 4 in UK) – 5th JT 45
For the famous FLUTE CAKE title, we are looking at four options, with the first two assuming that TMOQ’s 71044 release from July 1972 was the original and Dittolino copied it:
1. Dub bought a ticket to Tull’s next swing through So. Cal. at the Anaheim Convention Center on 19 October 1970 and recorded the show himself but did not ready it for a release it until 21 months later.
2. Someone else had recorded the performance and Dub received the tape only in 1972.
3. Dittolini were the first to release this album.
4. Another bootlegger was first, which would explain the time gap and the unusual matrix numbers of KW – 215344 A / B (also found on the Freebooter label).
Or perhaps, this was just a disguise used by Dub … or that sticker never belonged there:
recordsguild.com’s TMOQ wiki says the first version had this label type.
Anaheim Convention Center, Anaheim, California
19 October 1970
01. Nothing is Easy 7:40
02. My God 11:41
03. We Used to Know 3:20
04. With You There to Help Me / By Kind Permission Of 13:06
05. Song for Jeffrey 5:13
06. Sossity, You’re a Woman 5:33
Total time: 46:37